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spe
welcome to the Sputnik with me the
prince and Wales I think it's an
extremely interesting thing the whole
aspect of Soviet space travel has always
fascinated me ever since I was at
gordonston of course I I couldn't admit
that I had a crush on Valentina Tes kova
otherwise my housem would have thought I
was some kind of com me and giving me a
terrible
thrashing so that's why I I'm so pleased
to come out as it were and present
Sputnik
now sorry your old highness but I got
here first I'm Neil Clark orbiting the
world on Sputnik for my good friends
George and
gatrie have Donald Trump and Twitter
been a marriage made in heaven or in
Hell the American president has used
social media to cut out the middlemen in
the mainstream media and appeal directly
to the voting public
since launching on Twitter in 2011 the
president has tweeted over 34,000 times
and has an incredible
29.5 million followers that's even more
than we have following Sputnik what part
did tw Twitter play in propelling Trump
to the presidency and what can we learn
about the Donald from his 140 characters
to help us answer these questions is the
awardwinning and highly respected
journalist Peter oborn the co-author of
a new book how Trump thinks his tweets
and the birth of a new political
language an annotated chronology and
Analysis of all the president's tweets
Peter a very warm welcome on board the
Sputnik what we got to ask you first of
all is that Trump is not the only Pol
leading politician who uses Twitter just
about every leading politician today
uses it what makes his tweets so
different from the tweets of say Barack
Obama Hillary Clinton John McCaine Etc
yeah the answer is Hillary Clinton's
tweets were were created by committee
right all these political desicated
calculating machines special advisors
would nerdish sit around and sort of one
occasion they took nine hours to put out
a twe put out one tweet nine hourss nine
hours of committee meeting must be a
world record probably yeah and yeah and
so they're all calculated and they're
all and they're all other dispiriting
and they're all dead what the the Donald
Donald Trump for of all of his other
failings they're spontaneous they're
alarm
he just whacks them out there and his
fat fingers in front of the Telly
wearing his dressing G you know and and
they and they com they're combustible
they're dangerous they take risks and
they engage with people they're exciting
and would he have got to the White House
without Twitter do you think um no he
himself says that Twitter took him to
the white house uh and there's every
reason to think so because his White
House strategy was based on uh
confronting not not forming alliances
and and sucking up to the the uh our
beloved friends in the mainstream media
of which you don't apparently belong
yourself I'm disappointed to say um I he
he was of Silent of going around their
backs finding other methods of talking
to people and the primary method were
these uh these tweets which he he which
he sent out and I think in many ways
they're quite close to genius and what
what what were the best and the worst of
Donald Trump's tweets that you found
it's very interesting the the early
tweets are ghastly really that they he
takes he does it he's advised obviously
by some uh some snake oil salesman that
he ought to uh tweet in order to sell
his horrible products yeah in those days
it was his TV show wasn't it The
Apprentice was that was that he had a TV
show The Apprentice his various Brands
he tweeted out about his men's wear his
Gastly book telling you how to make lots
of money I mean um his wife has all
kinds of perfumes and I mean it's all
tweeted about and it's all dead because
it's clearly done by the uh the
marketing men but there is a moment in
and you can see it very clearly in the
summer of
2011 when some you know it's a bit like
that moment in The Terminator where
where the machines take control you know
it's incredible moment where the tweets
come alive right and and um they and
Trump discovered his inner voice and and
the 140 characters are the ideal ideal
thing for Trump you know the Wake Up
America China is eating your lunch yes
that was a classic was yeah and they and
he does and some something about them in
Che it into his uh subconscious I think
and all it happens to all writers and
all great politicians there's a moment
when you discover your voice and he
discovers his voice and Twitter is the
perfect media because it's it's very
unsophisticated no Nuance really there
is it at all yet you can get out a
powerful message only the scope to get
out you know a sense of black and white
and yet there's a lot you can do with it
and uh and he engages with Twitter and
he becomes a a phenominal he just tweets
he doesn't sort of respond to people
tweeting him back well he does does he
yeah I don't know one yeah he will but
what he does um is as the
2016 election starts to get going half
of his tweets are retweets not of this
sort of you know most people watching
this were familiar with the comment you
know the commentators the chattering
classes retweeting each other
reinforcing their own gly worldview and
prejudices and telling each other how
wonderful they are what what um what
Trump does is retweet the panters out
there in the
sticks and so half of them become and so
engages personally very directly with
ordinary people lots of cases we
uncovered in our book you know little
chat you know little bloke who has 250
followers you know's he's a grandmother
and his second cousin and his best
friend suddenly he's retweeted by Trump
and he's got 20 million people looking
at his observations and say that's how
Trump engaged that's very different
isn't it because as you say elite
figures don't normally do that do they
they just retweet each other they're
very important people non people for
they're very important these people in
the mainstream they're very important
people very serious people and they PR
praise one of the reasons we know that
is they tell each other how how very
important they are yes yeah quite yes so
that was a populous move by Trump really
wasn't it to embrace Twitter and uh what
would be the sort of worst Donald Trump
tweet that you saw one was a really sort
of objectionable what would be the best
what I mean some of his tweets on the
Arab Spring have proved to be
pretty y he got he understood the um the
D dynamics of Western intervention in in
the Middle East much more clearly than
his opponents he warned
immediately and by the by The Early
Autumn of 2011 he was predicting what
chaos would ensue from the Libyan
intervention right he got that
completely right likewise uh he was
warning against interventions in Syria
he later changed his mind yes sir um but
he was warning against interventions in
Syria he was warning against Iraq
Afghanistan he's very very very coherent
and consistent um in his um you know he
not a idealistic foreign policy it's an
isolationist foreign policy really but
it also he does appear um reading his
tweets to understand the Dynamics of
what was going to go wrong it with you
know strongly against the Libyan things
right right right now the the um there
are on the other hand there are some
terrible tweets I mean real I mean he he
has this horrible habit of if if a
famous person dies he's a best friend of
best R of that and um you know when
Nelson Mandela Dies who he possibly I
reckon maybe met once for about 3
seconds Shake three seconds yes you know
it's uh my his wonderful relationship
with Nelson I mean given the kind of
company which Trump keeps um for him to
claim a relationship with Nelson Mandela
I find pretty gruesome to be honest so
that was a real low Point perhaps the 34
34,000 tweets and I mean and there's a
white there a there's a even I mean more
TR one of his retweets we we found out
was we you know was white something
called white genocide really ugly
horrible Nazi right website so there is
uh there is that Darkness to Trump Peter
you're a man of many talents so not only
Britain's probably most respected
political commentator you're a great
sports fan as I am we've been racing
together at the chelon festival you're
also very big Cricket fan and you have
written the authoritative history of
cricket in Pakistan haven't you I
certainly have wounded tiger yeah I'm
very very proud of that um and actually
it's not a bad day to talk about this
when the two of the greatest men of
whole history of kistan cricket um MB
hak the Great Captain who saved and Unis
Khan basically they saved Pakistan
cricket after the terrible terrorist
assaults in 2009 when the San team s
Lankan team was targeted and then the
match fixing or the spot fixing uh
controversy more properly said to the
following year which basically put
Pakistan out into the you know the
reason to and it's been saved by misba
who let's pay tribute to this great man
who uh who saved Pakistan cricket and
that was so that's so important because
it's the whole idea of the Pakistan
nation and it's so full of these great
wonderful Figures it's an amazing book
amazing book I recommend it to everyone
basic in sport going back to Trump
briefly I mean things are moving pretty
fast probably what we say in this
program might be out of date by the time
it's broadcast you know the FBI story as
he he's been tweeting uh this week about
his sharing intelligence hasn't he with
the Russians saying you know what's
wrong I did it for humanitarian reasons
because apparently was about Isis plot
to take down Russian civilian Airlines
uh isn't that another we say Twitter
helped Trump get to the White House is
it it is it possible too that tritter
can actually make him stay in the white
house because he can actually respond to
his critics uh far quicker more directly
than if he had to go through the conduit
of the a pretty hostile press it's a
very nice Point actually it's because he
s when he left when he won the
presidency he said he was going to stop
tweeting uh but actually that never
happened but certainly the tweets became
less interesting and suddenly now he's
engaged in this new uh fight for
survival
he's um should have gone back isn't he
to he's gone back and and justify
himself on Twitter and that's of course
very um a significant thing to do and
it's the first thing time this has ever
been done as you as you said you know
Barack Obama's tweets were very
careful and and and and yet Trump uses
them as a method of as a method of
primary method of getting out of his
political message and bypassing the the
main political media media yes so
perhaps a follow-up book in a couple of
years time when he well every six months
every six months he 75,000 Peter thanks
so much for coming on the spck it's been
great don't go away because after the
break we'll be getting the lowdown on
this week's presidential elections in
Iran with our own Middle East expert
Katherine
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shakam welcome back to Sputnik with me
Neil Clark with elections underway in
Iran there are a number of issues at
stake along with the usual domestic
concerns regarding economic and social
agendas Donald Trump's campaign pledge
to rip up the 2016 Accord which lifted
sanctions must surely color the outcome
will the electorate move toward a
government more in line with the Islamic
revolution or will they stick with the
more liberal agenda of the current Rani
Administration to help us drill down to
what might be going through their minds
is cathine shakum our Middle East expert
Katherine a very warm welcome back on
board the Sputnik so who are the runners
and riders in the in the Iranian
election Stak so to speak I would say
there's two main you know um I think
candidates here and you have say Ibrahim
RI um who is definitely I think he's a
newcomer in the sense that you know the
West wasn't very much aware of his
existence until now and then of course
incoming president uh Hassan Rohani
who's running again um and I think it's
really a raceing between those two
candidates uh in particular I mean the
others are there uh but I would say they
they there to um you know demonstrate
that Iran is in fact you know a
pluralist um democracy and that you know
people you need to have different voices
to kind of um you know um make room for
you know people's I would say agenda and
to make sure that you know the needs and
the voices are being represented but
really when it comes down to it we
really talking in between a race in
between sayi and president Rani and I
think it's very interesting because the
I mean I know that the West has been
leaning very heavily towards president
Rohani because of course he brokered um
you know the the nuclear agreement um
and he make things very interesting for
the West because he's very much
understood as someone who's more
diplomatic in his approach but what is
very interesting is that the West is
completely missing the points in Iran
where there's um almost a Revival I
would say um that is happening right now
in Iran where this new generation you
know the youth um that the West is very
willing to portray as being pro Western
in that you know they want reform and
they want things to change they do but
they don't want change in the in the way
that I would say Western capitals
understand it and it's very interesting
because you have someone like sayi who's
coming to the scene and has been
portrayed as a so-call highliner
highliner or conservative uh because of
course he represents you know the
religious establishment in a way he's
very much in tune with what the youth
wants right now which is uh a return I
would say to uh the principles of 1979
Revolution and by that I mean this idea
that Iran and Iranians have have a right
to their own system of governance
regardless of what the west or other
countries in the international committee
think of it and that is very interesting
because we live in a time where we keep
talking about the separation of power
you know that the religious needs to be
cut off from the political and fair
enough it has worked in the west I mean
you know some might argue that it's not
working anymore um but Iran understands
politics and the way that its system
needs to to function very differently um
and they want to have this uh religious
oversight they want to have a nation
under God in the true sense of the of
the word um and that's what the the new
generation is actually going back
towards they understand that he has um
the governance of the jurus has very
much anchored the sense of nationality
uh and that they understand that it
actually has saved Iran in that he has
remained an independent nation it
doesn't mean they haven't suffered from
economic sanctions and what not of
course not but it means that they
understand that it was a necessary
struggle and they understand
that this is something that they want to
keep pushing to towards and not you know
what we calling now which is you know
this globalist agenda where everybody
has to kind of blend in and come into
this world economy Iran wants very much
to remain independent it doesn't mean it
doesn't want to play nice with its
neighbors it just means that they want
to uh preserve and protect their
sovereignty their right to political
self-determination uh and their right to
self to their own system of governance
which is different from that of the west
but Democratic nevertheless yes I think
that's very interesting because he
represents this Alliance in between what
the future will look like in Iran and
the tradition of Iran in terms of you
know this this marriage in between the
religious and the political and there's
a fusion here that a lot of the time the
West misunderstand because we talk about
theocracy when we talk about Iran it's
not a theocracy it's it's an Islamic
Republic meaning that it is a democracy
but a democracy that relies upon um a
degree you know this religious oversight
so you have it's very interesting the
way that it functions because there is
no real Line in the Sand that is being
drawn but at the same time there is a
very clear space where people have um
you know can expresss and decide what
policies they want to follow but at the
same time it's architected in a way that
it stays within the boundaries set up by
Islam system but is not the same here in
a
sense when we think of our elections in
the west is very much the same thing
isn't it Iran gets criticized for saying
that you have to stay within the
parameters of the Islamic Republic but
isn't the same here that anybody who
wants to go outside of these narrow
parameters is attacked and assailed and
called an extremist absolutely and
that's interesting air time doesn't get
any promotion at all but isn't it
interesting the the degree of prejudice
and I think you know to be quite fair
with you I think um 1979 Iran has been
uh grossly misunderstood in that they so
they didn't understand that it was truly
a stand for justice um and and National
sovereignty I mean you know when Imam
Kini came to the scene uh it wasn't it
was an act of Revolution against tyranny
the Sha uh and the Sha represented of
course you know capitalist interests or
of course exactly he represented
imperialism in its most you know gross
and and Despicable uh manner I would say
I mean he he massacred a lot of people
we need to remember this so when Imam
Kini came people of course saw you know
a cleric that they did not understand
they did understand you know the the the
the his his own sense of fashion or the
tradition that he carried and so
automatically they labeled him as being
you know a hardliner radical he wasn't
radical at all what he was actually
calling for which is interesting uh is
actually what America is calling for
which is you know empowerment of the
people legitimacy democracy human rights
dignity Sovereign National you know all
those um you know patriotism all those
principles that it's okay for the US and
Donald Trump to say that but not okay
for Iranians to say that it's
interesting isn't it how you know it's
it's I just I find it very compelling
that you know you can have for example
Donald Trump calling for America first
but when Iran is saying it when is
actually calling for Iran you know to
kind of strap up and say you know we are
Iranians and we will continue to stand
for Iranian interests fair enough it is
the country after all then it becomes
you know an act um extremist it's
belligerent or it's it's dangerous for
for for stability for the stability of
the region but how so you cannot
possibly make a case for your own rights
if you don't actually expect other
people to demand the same rights and
actually claim it for themsel and I
think that's the problem that we have
today is that exceptionalism is actually
leading the show and that we have
decided somehow along the line to say
that Western democracy is automatically
better but we tend to forget that it's
not the case of better or worse it's the
case of what do the people want it's
interesting because Saudi Arabia for
example which is a theocracy which is
violent and repressive and and is
actually I would say qu rather
despicable in the manner that it's it
operates um is never criticized because
it's a front but then again you know
would you rather be front with a
democracy you know maybe you you don't
agree with everything but still
democracy or would you actually lie in
bed with a theocracy I would choose Iran
as a France rather than Saudi Arabia
because at least they don't commit war
crimes every day what differences would
there be in terms of foreign policy if
any depending on who wins for example
with the Accords with the US and also in
relation to Syria because I'm sure
you'll agree that what happens in Syria
is usually important for Iran were yes
the Assad government to be toppled then
this would be very dangerous for around
because we know we saw Wesley Clark
Commander Wesley Clark the NATO
Commander speech talking about how many
countries the US was going to take out
Iran's on the list we know that were the
Syrian government to fall then Iran
would be next in the neocon line of fire
is there any would there be any
difference at all between the candidates
on the position regarding the US and
Syria I'm going to say you're not going
to have you're not going to find a real
difference in that you need to
understand when it comes to Iran um I
would said that a said the tone so he
already made very clear um that you know
there will be no backing from Syria
because Syria ask for help and Iran
understand that you know when it comes
to counterterrorism you can't really
play lightly go in and then get out when
it gets tough um so I don't think that
you're going to see any real difference
you might see a difference uh in in the
manner in which the agenda is being
carried uh in that you're going to find
you know um a different of tone maybe
language uh or the behavior will be a
bit different but I would say that when
it comes to um Rohani Mr Rohani um he
has been more liberal I don't like the
word liberal but I would say he has been
a bit more Pro Western in that he's
leaning towards capitalism a bit more
where there's a greater desire to to be
integrated into I would say the world
economy now when it come to sayi um
there's a greater desire to really
temper you know capitalism with I would
say what referred to is the resistance
economy in that he very much pushes on
this idea that Iran needs to be
independent and it doesn't mean that it
needs to be cut off but it means that
there's a there's a need for a degree of
self-sufficiency uh so that Iran would
be able to negotiate with a strong
position you know whether it's um you
know um business deals or you know
political agreement or or anything like
this because if you come from a place
where you are financially sound and
strong then you can really actually
promote um the the rights of your people
rather than that of the people across
the table from you and are there
concerns Katherine in Iraq about what
happened to Libya for example because
he's very similar isn't it Libya Colonel
Gaddafi was out in the cold pushed out
in the cold by the way he was the Pariah
then about 2003 he surrendered his
weapons program sanctions were lifted
Western investment ped into Libya became
a cruise ship destination Tony Blair was
out there grinning and what was that all
preparing us for war on Libya to weaken
Libya to get uh to use Western if you
like investment in there as a sort of
cover for then a regime change op is
there a sort of concern among Iranians
that Ran's approach might possibly lead
to that further along down the line and
and that in other words they would be
better off having a leader who was
actually uh if you like less uh Pro
Western to to defend the country
basically you see again I'm going back
to um I do understand where you're
coming from uh but you have to
understand that the leadership the real
leadership uh is within the hands of a
so I don't think that Iranians are
concerned because they understand that
the country is very much protected and
certain line will never be crossed I
think that you know was very clear as to
where he stands in terms of you know
what he will allow and not allow because
is there to ensure that there is the
Integrity of the state is being
preserved and I think this is something
that the West needs to really get a grip
on and understand that some things will
never change because Iran speaks a
tradition that the West might not
understand but it doesn't mean it's not
there um and and I think he has a great
degree of um this misconception when it
comes to Shia Islam because people think
Islam think Saudi Arabia Shia Islam is
very different Shia Islam has a whole
system and a tradition which is even
though very similar in in many ways very
different in the way that it manifests
politically speaking uh and I think that
people just need to get a grip and try
to understand it rather than pass
judgment thinking they're talking about
Saudi Arabia it's very different in Iran
you can't you know you can't talk about
you can Iran has a human rights um
tradition you know uh women have a right
uh in Iran that they don't have in Saudi
Arabia for example so he really talking
um you know you're talking apples and
and and bananas here you can't there is
no comparison and we have elections in
IR exactly exactly which I mean in Saudi
Arabia I I can't remember the last time
they had elections um I think it was
about 14 centuries ago or something and
um you know I mean it's and the British
government doesn't seem to mind too much
about that does it exactly which is
interesting because they criticize a lot
Iran but Iran actually has elections and
for example um there were several
articles now I think it was the Middle
East I and the Middle East Monitor you
know talking about suddenly Iran is on
the war path you know they mobilizing
their troops it's not true what they're
doing is that you have to understand
that millions and millions of Iranians
are going to vote it's a logistic
Nightmare and what they're trying to do
is actually facilitate you know uh buses
going from point A to point B uh without
any trouble so what's the problem in
having you know um the Army and the the
security service in in Iran to secure um
you know to ensure that everything goes
up to plan and that there's no issues I
think it's quite reasonable I would say
absolutely well Katherine it's been a
pleasure to have you once again on the
sport thank you for coming on always a
pleasure well unfortunately that's all
we've got time for today I've been Neil
Clark standing in for George Galloway
and as George would
say it's been
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marvelous